[ic] re: what is help response demonstrates the problem

[Paul Jordan]

> If these questions have been answered previously, the proper help
> thing to do is to give the questioner the URL to the answer as in:
> "The answer can be found here
> http://www.icdev.org/11111/22222/33333.htm" Nebulously saying "it
> is in the archives" is helping no-one; hence the repeating of the
> same question.


No rick, this is incorrect. This actually encourages people to ask simple
questions to the list, as they would know someone else would do the work for
them and simply point them right to the answer.

If everyone did as you suggest, we would be floded with everything that is
already in the archives, in the FAQ in the forum, in the wiki...

However, you must realize, that if someone asks a simple question that is in
the archives, and do not recieve a response, what are they forced to do
Rick?

With your definition, the work will be done for them. With ours, it forces
said people to do their own work, thus cutting down significantly on the
long term affects of each individual asking more simple questions.


> The other help alternative is to go into the archive, cut and
> paste the answer into a response, and send it - off-list
> (privately) - to the questioner.
>
> If the question is about compiling the perl dist, give them a
> Perl URL to one of the Perl Help sites, or reread the question to
> see if it is unique to that version/configuration/etc. (why do
> you think people send that info?)
>


Rick? I think you have a skewed view of what this is all about. We are not
here to help others with everything they need to do in their lives. However
you are suggesting we actually answer their every question hoping they will
choose on their own volition to do the work themselves, after knowing all
they have to do is post any question to a list?


>  "I spend an inordinate amount of time sorting through the list with
> questions about "How to compile Perl?" or "How do I find the permissions
> of a file?" or "Can I use IC on a host with only ftp access?" to find
> the one answer buried in it.
>
> I say to them all who do the above, "Go to 'Barnes and Nobles'
> and buy a book on UNIX basics" or the quickest answer RTFM.
>
> I personally am tired of the (paraphrase) "I have no clue about
> computers and especially UNIX/LINUX/Perl could you help me?".  "
> ************************************************************************
>
> I could not have demonstrated what is NOT help better.You have an
> attitude problem: this is not a "help" attitude. A "help"
> attitude (customer service attitude, et. al. ) is typified by a
> basic respect for the customer - this demonstrates none.



This aint curtomer service Rick.



> As an example, I said that I had sent a question about authorize
> nets SIM process and had anyone tried it, etc. and all I got in
> response was people who had not READ the message and responded
> about AIM method. This was no help; had no chance to be help, was
> totally irrelevant and irresponsible. The bottom line was I got
> several response not one of which responded to my question. This
> was no lone example.



Are you saying that Racke's response did not work Rick? Are you saying that
AutorizeNet.pm will not work for  SIM? In your question you said:
---------------------------
There is some Authorize.net Meta field parameters in the admin page of
interchange but they are specifically for the old system that expires
May 1. The Authorize.net perl module in
http://www.interchange.rtfm.info/downloads/payments/ is also the
obsolete system.
----------------------------

This is not true. You did not understand what Authorize Net was doing, so
you thought you could just ask a vague question and have someone swoop in
and walk you through exactly what Rick need to do that day.



> The point here is that help questions deserve helpful answers. If
> you don't want to give a helpful answer why are YOU posting at
> all? examine YOUR motives in posting. Moderators should moderate
> out all the childish non-answer answer posts as that will remove
> the motivation for them.


No Rick, your wrong. saying "it's in the archives" and forcing them to find
it, is WAY more help than pointing them to their answer. Do you really not
see that Rick?



> Agora, or OS Commerce, or....). There is no reason to be abusive,
> and the non-answer answers are basically abusive. the attitude
> that other people have no clue is abusive. the attitude that
> their questions do not belong here are abusive.


Help is empowering others Rick, not doing their work for them. Everybody on
this list knows (sans you) that copy/pasting atext or a link does not equait
to the person suddenly doing the work themselves. What country do you live
in man? Perfectstan?

Interchange is free, and now you want free customer service?

Paul