[ic] Re: Unrecognized character \x7F
rphipps at reliant-solutions.com
Tue Apr 13 23:37:58 EDT 2004
> From: interchange-users-bounces at icdevgroup.org
> bounces at icdevgroup.org] On Behalf Of Rodney S. Foley
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: interchange-users-bounces at icdevgroup.org [mailto:interchange-
> > bounces at icdevgroup.org] On Behalf Of John Young
> > Rodney S. Foley wrote:
> > > The problem here sounds like I am missing some 3rd party
> > that
> > > is the case, how can I found out what they are sense Interchange
> > > publish them in the readme?
> > In the current IC tarball, there is README.rpm-dist, which contains:
> > perl -MCPAN -e'install Bundle::CPAN'
> > Then install the main modules Interchange uses:
> > perl -MCPAN -e'install Bundle::Interchange'
> > Instead you may want to install a bundle that includes many
> > but
> > useful modules:
> > perl -MCPAN -e'install Bundle::InterchangeKitchenSink'
> > If you look inside those bundles, you will know what might be
> > As has been stated, though, it sounds like your install is failing
> > even getting to that point. Perhaps you could try the install on a
> > different system to help troubleshoot the situation.
> > Those bundles were put together by Mike, free of charge and out of
> > goodness of his heart to make things easier for all of us.
> > There is also discussion of Perl modules in the archives of this
> > list,
> > accessible and searchable via www.icdevgroup.org, courtesy of Mike,
> > Jon, and a few others... free of charge, and to make things easier
> > of us. Us users don't even have to pay for the bandwidth of that
> > > I would like to thank Mike, Racke and all the others who just
> > > message who might be able to help, for the incredible welcome to
> > > Interchange. This is the welcome you want to give everyone you
> > > drive off, if that is what you are trying to do, just keep it up.
> > Rodney, you need to think about the hundreds of hours Mike, Racke,
> > others have put into those install routines already... and thousands
> > hours into the rest of Interchange... and we all are allowed to
> > from it. Do you think Mike or Racke need all of the install
> > themselves? Much of this sort of thing is written for others.
> > The biggest problem with Interchange is that it can be very deep and
> > complex
> > because it can handle very complex requirements (much as with an
> > application
> > like Sendmail).
> > Show some patience, and be prepared to invest a lot of time (unless
> > hire
> > a consultant to do it for you). And think about how much work these
> > have already put into what you have downloaded.
> > John Young
> Thanks for you polite and thoughtful response.
> I have installed a lot of Open Source, Freeware, and High-priced
> There is good and bad in every group. Sometimes the software is
> the install procedures or process is just horrible, or the software
> but it has a great install procedures or process. On a rare occasion
> get a great software with a great install procedures or process.
> However, all-in-all I have never seen such a poorly supported product
> OpenSource or not.
There you go again attacking Interchange.
This product is supported well, you just chose to go on the attack
before giving anyone the chance to answer your question. You gave
everyone exactly one day to read your problem and you came to the
conclusion it was a bad installer, bad package or a bad readme file when
in actuality it is a problem with your perl installation nothing more,
nothing less. You've also come to the conclusion that no one wants to
help and that everyone thinks they are better off without new IC users.
Seems to me you jumped the gun and haven't given anyone a chance and you
expected a miracle overnight. Maybe no one has seen that problem
If you search the archives you will finds hundreds of thousands of
questions and responses both from members of the ICDEVGROUP and from
users of the software. The proves to me that there is a support
structure here. I know for a fact that there is such a structure
because I ask questions and they get answers from multiple people. In
return I try to answer questions I know the answers too.
I started out just like you, installing IC, making changes, running into
problems, but at that point I took a different path. I took the advice
of others and tried not to lay blame on the creators of IC and I did not
expect everyone else to fix my problems. The last thing I wanted to do
was to bite the hand that feeds me (in this case the IC creators)
because I knew if I burned that bridge they wouldn't help me out in the
future. You sir are burning that bridge. You as a brand new user went
on the attack. I know if I had built something like IC and someone came
to my home and started attacking the installer and documentation I would
turn my cheek and not help them. Mike, the creator of IC responded to
your comments and even went as far as to tell you it's a problem with
your Perl install, even after you talked a bunch of crap about the
readme, the installer and the group.
> I do appreciate all developers and the time the put into a product,
> especially when it is an OpenSource product. However, that doesn't
> them the freedom to be rude, or insensitive to new users of their
Perhaps if you weren't rude FIRST there wouldn't be an issue now would
there? You assumed the documentation was lacking and that's why you
couldn't get IC to install, that is NOT the case. All Interchange needs
to install properly is a standard install of Perl, nothing more, nothing
less. Once IC installs it will tell you what modules need to be
> They need to be especially nice to new users, they want to make it as
> as possible for there product to be adopted. Making a killing
> but making it difficult to use or install, doesn't help group your
> base. Then when they have what they think is a smooth process down,
> someone who isn't at the GURU level of perl and linux comes in, it may
> be as smooth as they thought.
IC is NOT difficult to install. The process is easy if you read the
directions. If there is a problem with your Perl install that is not
the fault of Interchange, the readme, or the installer. You couldn't
even run Makefile.PL on your system, there is an issue there.
The creators of IC are nice to new users when they follow the FAQ, are
polite on the list, don't act high and mighty (which I get a sense of
from your posts) and don't expect free support (which you seem to
expect). Instead of telling everyone in the community how you think
things are supposed to happen maybe you could observe how things work
and then act accordingly.
> I am a developer also, and I understand where they are coming from. I
> QA a little different I guess. I always have my QA staff handle the
> stuff. However, I always try to find all levels of users outside the
> staff to take the product as we would deliver it and see if they can
> and use it with out problems. Then we work out the rough areas.
> Regardless, I guess I will have to find another product to use for my
> since the creators and high-level people involved in Interchange do
> to want help in making the install process smoother, and easier for
> common person. If they did they wouldn't attack a person pointing out
> problems with the process they would take advantage of the situation
> utilize the person to make the process better. Isn't that what the
> OpenSource Community is all about?
When will you realize the installer works? You are running an obscure
kernel from some distro/add-on that may have issues with Perl or lock
down what Perl can do. The installer works on a fresh Redhat install, I
can verify this because I did one just last week.
> Anyway I will try it on another completely different server, if it has
> same problem I guess I will call it quites.
When you do this on a different server, try it on something not running
grsecurity and see what your results are. If it works on another server
then maybe you will believe that the installer works and there is a
problem with your system. I'd be real careful what you say, you've
probably just about alienated yourself from help at this point.
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